Curse

Karlos · Mar 21, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

I am a PvE guy and an ardent PvE guy. I tried PvP, I have done well in PvP and I honestly hate PvP. I love conquering PvE over and over. Doing quests, clearing areas and so forth. My most beloved areas in the game are the Fissure of Woe and the Underworld. Fissure ranks highest, then the Underworld and everything else is a distant third.

Now, I would like to propose that ANet separate FoW and UW from PvP. As it stands now, FoW and UW are only accessible if your region has favor. Favor, as we all know is decided by who wins in the Hall of Heroes five times in a row. The Hall of Heroes is one of the advanced forms of PvP.

As a PvE'er. I am ticked off at this. Aside from the nights when my region is unable to even get favor and I am reduced to farming or doing missions I have done dozens of times before, it places these areas out of my reach for no fault of mine nor for any conceivable reason. In addition, it is hypocritical of ANet. Let's examine these arguments quick:

1-Hypocrisy: Gradually, ANet has freed PvPers from the confines of the PvE world. With the introduction of faction, hardcore PvP players can fully unlock everything they want in the game without ever setting foot in Ascalon City. They even moved them to Battle Isles so that they don't have to even LOOK at Ascalon City. the highest and lowest levels of PvP do not require any playtime in PvE what so ever. On the flip side, PvE'ers like me can ignore PvP completely until they get to the highest and finest challenge in PvE when they are told: "No, you can't play here as you please, PvP players will decide how much you get to play here." It's like telling PvP players that they access to Heroes' Ascent will be decided based on which territory completes Orozar's quest the most. Something I am sure sounds completely retarded to PvP players.

2-No recourse: As a player who has excelled in the Fissure and the UW, I am used to their extremely high challenges. Nothing in the game even comes close. The other place with repeatable quests (Sorrow's Furnace) has been turned into a complete joke by green farmers. You can't get a group to quest there any more.

3-I don't like PvP: The usual response (usually from snobbish PvP players) is, well, why don't you win the favor back for your territory and solve the problem? The honest truth is: I HATE PvP. I get let thrill from beating 4 or 8 other human players ina game of skill than I do from actually acomplishing something and completing quests and slaying terrible foes. The game should not force me to play in an area (or stye) that I don't like so that I can play in the style that I do like. I believe there was a proclaimed dedication from ANet to both sides of the game. Unfortunately, for the PvE side, all they keep catering to is the lousy farming community. More greens, bigger slavage kits!

I tried to ask this change of ANet but was told to go peddle my case on internet forums and hope and pray that an ANet developer will come across my post and see that others have taken a liking to my suggestion. So, this is what I am doing. It is my last bid to do this before giving up on the game. Canceled the pre-order of Factions already.

drowningfish999 · Mar 22, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

That's why there are other high level areas for PvE when your faction doesn't have favor. Ex. Sorrow's Furnace, Tombs, etc, and I'm sure plenty more will come out in Factions. Although I agree it is a little strange to have a PvE area rely on the success of PvP players, I'm sure Arena.Net has a reason for it, whether it be to control the over farming of rare items, or just to "unify" the PvP and PvE communites.

dreamhunk · Mar 22, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

I confess as an rpg player, I like how anet has made UW and foW. You also have tombs now too.

AeroLion · Mar 22, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

At one point, Alex Weekes asked for some hard data from the community to show that there was an imbalance in the time a single territory held favor. If we could show that, then perhaps the whole WaW concept would be re-examined.

I know there was one person that was trying to accumulate data but I don't know if he/she is still doing so or even interested. In any case, I don't think anything is about to change unless there's data to show it's unfair to a majority of players.

Malice Black · Mar 22, 2006, 01:52 AM // 01:52

SF=a joke, greens are merchant food
new tombs=same as above

without the favor aspect of fow/uw anet would just continue to nerf the place to death, because of the mass ebay farmers ect

i personally hate pvp but its the only way of keeping fow/uw as the last decent farming area

Karlos · Mar 22, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Those two "high level" adventuring areas are nothing more than farming grounds. I don't know if it's by design or accident, but you can't "adventure" in Sorrow's Furnace any more (try and form a party to do High Priest Alkar's quest or FA quest, not FA farm).

The Ruins of the Tombs is a farming area. There are no quests, there is no challenge, just a way for Ecto farmers to farm ectos without acces to UW and a place for farming new greens. Zzzzz.

And I would like to know ANets reasons for tying FoW and UW to favor, if it's about drops, that's easy, make drops of those rare materials less frequently.

NatalieD · Mar 22, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

/signed, and I don't even really care about PVE. I can still tell that "worlds at war" is a pointless inconvenience with disparate impacts for no real reason.

Joh · Mar 22, 2006, 01:45 PM // 13:45

/not signed

I personally like the fact you have to have favor to enter UW/FoW, even though UW is one of my favorite farming spots too. It ties the game together. Without it, the game would be even more separated PvE/PvP. It also gives you a feeling that having favor actually means something.

WasAGuest · Mar 22, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

/signed and double signed for the mess that is coming called Factions. For anyone following Factions knows that after Factions version of Ascention, everything but the Elite Missions are PvP and PvP mini games. This means PvEers are going to be even more reliant on PvP to gain access to areas.
That marketing dribble that PvE can also aid in moving the borders is just that, marketing dribble.
Competitive Missions = PvP mini games where scoring higher than the other team and mini skirmishes occur. These missions are needed for faction points.
Alliance Battles = goes without saying, PvP on a larger scale.
Coop Missions = if you've heard the interview on gamingsteve.com you'll already know that pre-ascention in factions is around 10% of the game; which means the other 80% is PvP based with the remaining 10% being quests and elite missions. These missions are accessed only when controlled by the same faction as the one you belong too and then you are able to spend your faction points to enter them. Meaning access to them is available after PvP wins them, and after you've PvP'd to farm the faction points.

Before someone tries to say the competitive missions are not PvP, think about it a little bit. Modern day sports play in an "arena" type area and play for points. Golf is a great example as is racing (NASCAR). The course is the challenge, but placement, skill and score is playing against the other players. This example is also confirmed at the end of the interview when Jeff S and "Steve" talk about Guild Wars and the direction of E-Sports.

As for it bringing the two play styles closer, it does if you enjoy both play types. It creates a larger rift between the two if you dont.

I also canceled my pre-order (days ago now) and will pass on buying Factions. It's not only cause I'm forced into a play style I don't care for, but because there isn't $50 worth of PvE content for me to play in.
I'll hold out till Novemeber and the release of Chapter 3 (also mentioned in the interview). Maybe PvE will get the same attention in Chapter 3 that PvP got in Factions.

So yea, remove PvE reliance from PvP or make it so it's balanced. Lock down PvP areas till PvE opens them through a multi-tude of missions and quests. Ie. Bring them closer.

For the details on this information head over to gamingsteve.com and hear the interview yourself. The majority of talk is PvP based even though "Steve" tries to talk about PvE many times. Jeff S even boasts about "griefing" players and how he enjoyed doing so. You'll hear the ratios given and November time line for Chapter 3 amoung many other things.

PS. Not ranting, not flaming, not trolling, just being a realist and stated only my opinion and shared information from the interview of Jeff S and all current info on Factions. If any of this information is incorrect, an Anet rep has yet to correct it and I have stated this same info in posts where Gaile has frequently posted. - That said, Factions will be an awesome game for those who enjoy any form of PvP. For the rest of us... meh - I say save your money and we'll see about Chapter 3.

fiery · Mar 22, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Merchant food ROCKS!

Rayea · Mar 22, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

well, i have said this from the start, and i have never even set foot in these places..

it defies logic to make a percentage of the players locked out from an area because their side has not got the favor of the gods...
and while im at it...

why would the favor of a God allow access to an area at all?
it would make much more sence for their favour to alow you to access sertain quests (all inthe name of said deity) or skills ect.
why would a god of any kind have sometihng to do with someplace...a place...i mean, they dont even have a corporeal form! there like....Daniel Jackson, without the glowwy bits or glassess

*ahem*
/signed....tis silly to have a god associated with something physical, when you can see clearly right thru them ;p

nitrile · Mar 22, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Though I'm also extremely nonplussed by PvP I can only say the limited access time to UW/FoW can be a good thing. After your territory has had favour 5 hours there's usually nothing happening and groups forming there are almost always pretty terrible (in attitude as much as anything else). But I've found that in the first 30 minutes or so after gaining favour, people that actually want to go there are fairly easy to find. After a few hours you only have a slow stream of arrogant farming bots (maybe people, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I'm calling them ducks) just like SF. And furthermore having access restricted somewhat makes them more "special" and worthy of conquering. This is my experience on european servers at least. I'm not sure having access negotiated by PvP is the best idea but I can't suggest what I'd replace it with, and the binary Kurzick/Luxon concept in factions is as good as any. At least this should improve things for places like Japan and Taiwan, who have been in the ridiculous position of (as far as I can tell), having never, or practically never had favour.

I imagine places like ToPK and Sorrow's Furnace were added precisely for the purpose of having something to do when your region doesn't have favour. And at the start, Sorrows and ToPK were a lot of fun. I really enjoyed sorrows but I don't waste time with the inhabitants of either place now. I can only say factions won't arrive a moment too soon, and whether to be paid for, or not I welcome a 6 month schedule for new content.

I guess that kinda wandered away from the topic slightly. Maybe I've had it too good lately due to the necro spiking flavour of the month builds but while I too love fissure/uw areas and understand the point of the original poster I've got to go /unsigned for reasons in my first paragraph.

Across The Battle · Mar 22, 2006, 10:11 PM // 22:11

/not signed

Although I love FoW and can't get enough of it, I don't think it should be opened up always. The favor of the gods ties the whole game together, without it, might as well make two seperate games. Not to mention the extreme hurt to the economy of Ectos and Shards, and the various other drops down there.

Lampshade · Mar 22, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Actually, PvP players HAVE to play the PvE.

You can't unlock rez signet with Faction.

Angelica · Mar 22, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

/signed, double signed and triple signed!!!
I am not able to finish and even start the quests in SF, no one is interested in doing them not even my guildies. It's almost impossible to do them with hencies because the Alkar's quest requires your team to split up and henchies always follow you!!

/Angelica

Fantus · Mar 22, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

/signed a 100,000 times over

The WaW concept is one of the -sorry Anet- dumbest ideas ever implemented in a computer game. PvE players can't influence favor, PvP players don't care for it...

Ras Kass · Mar 22, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

Coop Missions = if you've heard the interview on gamingsteve.com you'll already know that pre-ascention in factions is around 10% of the game; which means the other 80% is PvP based with the remaining 10% being quests and elite missions.

Correct me if I'm wrong, (which I'm not because I just checked) but are Co-op missions not what the current pve missions are?

So this leads me to believe you are trying to say there will be no post-ascension missions. Durr.

Xenrath · Mar 22, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

I'd tend to agree - why should parts of your game be locked out and dependant on other people? (who likely aren't too interested in PvE anyway)

It's doubtful this will ever change though; if you read the FPE preview stuff, if anything, it's set to expand and push more PvP onto people who aren't really interested in it.

Age · Mar 22, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

/Not signed

It would be harder forming groups for missions as that us when good crowds are there is when your server doesn't have favour and it does tie PvE with PvP as you can use your RP Char in PvP.

Kool Pajamas · Mar 23, 2006, 12:34 AM // 00:34

/signed

I used to not care about it, but now that Japan and Taiwan are in the mix, it just doesnt seem right. All these servers battling for favor means everyone gets it less. Or one territory gets it for a long time because there are so many that it becomes much harder for one server to win 5 in row to take it away.